Management is appointed by authority, but leadership is appointed by those being led, and so when we start talking about how does effective leadership impact things like employees and patients, we have to consider the difference between management, which is being given the authority, and leadership, which is people being enrolled and choosing to follow, choosing to go somewhere with those leaders right. And that begs a couple of additional questions who are the leaders and where are they leading us?
Erin Vallier:
Welcome to another episode of the HomeHelp360 podcast, where we speak to home-based care professionals from around the globe. I’m your host, Erin Vallier, and today I am joined by someone who I respect and admire, Peter Svenneby. Peter is an executive coach and an expert in organizational transformation, leadership, and sales. Organizational transformation, leadership, and sales. In the 25 years since founding his company, Syntuity, he has worked with organizations around the globe, ranging from small, local non-profits to global 2000 enterprises. He gets his energy from helping great ideas, great products and great companies grow and thrive, and he holds a degree in engineering from the University of California, Irvine, which seems completely unrelated to sales coaching.
Erin Vallier:
So I have to ask how did you get from engineering to coaching, peter?
Peter Svenneby:
Yeah, anyone who went through engineering school and I’m sure plenty of physicians who listen to this understand that from med school you get out and you realize what you really want. I did software engineering and engineering work for a few years and then realized that I needed to be around people a little bit more. I accidentally landed in my first sales role probably eight years after school but realized what a deep journey it is to understand the dynamic of selling and leadership, and the two I really find go very much hand in hand. The journey in sales and the leadership very much is a similar journey on both parts.
Erin Vallier:
Can you share a little bit about your background in sales, coaching and leadership consulting?
Peter Svenneby:
I took my first sales job, like I said, a few years into my career and as an engineer who is very much on the pragmatic objective give me the numbers and the answer and work things out it did not come naturally or easily for me and so I guess for me it was so much about self-discovery and understanding people and listening and details that maybe would not be associated with engineers to begin with. So, long story short, I had a lot to learn and because I was going through the learning process, none of it occurred to me naturally. I think it made a good foundation to actually coach others who were in that process of learning how to become a leader and how to become a salesperson and lead sales and such as that. I think it was my lack of natural ability that really set me up and it’s been a you know.
Erin Vallier:
I think it was my lack of natural ability that really set me up and it’s been, you know, dating myself. But a 30 plus. They’ve read and all the experiences and conversations they’ve had. So tell me, how does effective leadership impact things like employees and patients, Because these things are always top of mind for folks in the healthcare industry.
Peter Svenneby:
Yeah, and it’s a really big question at a really high level. Are you willing to like peel that onion down a little bit, let’s do it.
Peter Svenneby:
First, there’s a distinction between management and leadership that I was given by a close friend, john King, who wrote the book Tribal Leadership. He always tells me management is appointed by authority, but leadership is appointed by those being led. And so when we start talking about how does effective leadership impact things like employees and patients, we have to consider the difference between management, which is being given the authority, and leadership, which is people being enrolled and choosing to follow, choosing to go somewhere with those leaders right, choosing to go somewhere with those leaders right. And that begs a couple of additional questions who are the leaders and where are they leading us? Right, we know who our managers are, we know our bosses are, we know what we’ve been told to do.
Peter Svenneby:
But I think, at a deeper level in the organization, when you really look at top leadership and who they show up, as every day at work, what you can see, especially from my point of view when I’m coaching and developing an organization, is there are core commitments that drive a leader and their decision-making and the way they show up. And so often in executive leadership, what we see is those core commitments are to the ownership, to the investors, to the KPIs, to the numbers, and they’re not to a mission or a vision for excellent care or for an excellent culture or something of that nature. And so when we talk about effective leadership, the first thing we have to ask is who are the leaders and where are we being led? But when we think about an organization where the leaders have painted a vision for the entire organization and communicated it clearly, that here’s the standard of care we wish to provide and here’s why it’s important and here are examples of how it makes a difference in people’s lives and we begin to lead our people to sharing that vision and bringing it to life in the organization.
Peter Svenneby:
It changes everything, right. It changes everything about how the employees show up and their understanding of what they’re supposed to do. And the other thing to consider, when we think about patients, who are the patients leaders? They’re the clinicians that show up in the home, right? They’re the ones that show up and embody the example of a positive attitude and embody the example of when there’s a setback, we have something to do. It’s a process. Their attitude, their demeanor, their commitment, their vision for what they’re trying to accomplish in the home is the leadership that the patient requires to get through whatever it is they’re dealing with, right?
Erin Vallier:
That’s deep. I can see how that’s played out in my career. I worked on the provider side before hopping into technology and I got to see firsthand how difficult it is to run an agency because you have to deal with government payers, other payers and people. It’s difficult and the state knocks on your door because you shut up five minutes late and somebody calls and complains and it takes a right kind of leader to inspire the employees to work overtime, to dig up and like okay, there’s the survey. You’ve got to dive in all hands on deck and if you don’t have the right kind of leadership, then you’re just going to sink.
Erin Vallier:
You’re not going to be successful at all. So in your experience, Peter, what are some common challenges that healthcare executives face in terms of leadership and how can they address those challenges?
Peter Svenneby:
And I think what you just brought up really touches that, and it’s not just healthcare executives, it’s executives in every business. But healthcare executives, I think, have an added level of difficulty. As a leader in an organization, we are pulled towards many different commitments, not the least of which is ownership, kpis, revenue, profit, stock price if you’re a public company, et cetera, et cetera. Again, leadership comes back to your primary commitments. And if your primary commitment is to make a number, then the secondary commitment becomes your people, your culture, these other things. Right, and that’s evident in the way leaders show up and how the company either rallies around them to achieve things or not. Right, because as employees we don’t get excited about the executive making their bonus or the stock price going up. That doesn’t change our life and for the most part we want to feel included and part of something bigger and such.
Peter Svenneby:
But when leadership is pulled more strongly by their bosses, by the number, by the stock market, by their investors, by their board, than they are by making work workable for their employees, then you get a dynamic where the employees don’t step up at a critical moment. Right, that’s their problem that we don’t make that number. Right, that’s their problem that we don’t make that number. However, when a leader makes it their primary commitment to create a workable work environment, to have a clear vision of what we’re trying to accomplish, and believes that by empowering their employees, they’re going to make their numbers as a secondary thing and the analogy I like to think about is in sports you can’t manage the score on the scoreboard. You got to manage the players on the field, and so often what I see in leadership is the executive team managing the score on the scoreboard, not realizing that score is met by your employees showing up and feeling passionate and feeling included, and not being distracted by little things their pay or their work-life balance or the safety of their environment.
Erin Vallier:
Yeah, those things make all the difference in the world, especially when you’re dealing in the health care industry where you’re caring for people, because you’ve got to have happy people going into the home to care for the people and there’s been a lot of evidence to suggest that if your caregivers are not happy, your patient outcomes drop. So super, super important.
Peter Svenneby:
Think about it in the terms of leadership. Who are the leaders and where are they leading? Well, in the case of the home, the leader is the clinician, the provider that comes in, and where are they leading them? Are they leading them to optimism and a belief they’re going to get well or they’re going to get through this or that things are going to be okay, or are they leading them to pessimism and frustration, and I’m not happy at my job?
Erin Vallier:
So how can leaders foster a positive and supportive culture within their healthcare teams? I know we’ve talked a little bit why it’s so crucial for success, but how?
Peter Svenneby:
I listened to your podcast with Dr Louis Short and Laurie Cabbage about positive work culture as well. It’s a funny dynamic Almost across the board board. When I coach a CEO or a top leader of an organization and we’re outside of the day-to-day stresses that they encounter and I asked them the question that you just asked me how can we foster a positive culture, how can we enable these things? They immediately know the answer. So it’s not such a question of how it’s. Usually these leaders know. It’s how do I manage the competing commitments that I’m up against? If you’re private equity owned, how do I tell my operating partner be patient. I’m working on changing our culture because it’s going to generate the numbers.
Peter Svenneby:
There’s an interesting story that was detailed in a book called the Power of Habit by Charles Duhigg and the story was about Alcoa and it occurred back in the 80s. Alcoa had hired a new CEO, Paul O’Neill, and he goes to this big meeting of investors and analysts and it was really their first exposure to this new CEO and they’re asking questions and want to talk about inventories and revenue and expenses. And he said, no, we’re not going to talk about that. We have one focus and that’s going to be worker safety and he went on to tell about how, you know, at Alcoa, a big manufacturing company, we have machines that will rip people’s arms off and that’s not tolerable anymore. And we’re not trying to be the safest organization in the United States, we’re trying to have zero injuries.
Peter Svenneby:
There’s a story in the book that details that one of the investors ran back and made a quick phone call and said they’ve hired a crazy hippie. Sell all your stock immediately. He doesn’t know what he’s doing. End of the story is this is early mid-1980s and around year 2000,. When Paul O’Neill retired, they had added $25 billion to their market capital. They had grown 5X in size and there was this shift towards let’s create a safe environment for our employees, which is similar to what we’re talking about here. It’s not a question of how. It’s a question of your commitments and your priorities and understanding that the things that you know to do are going to be enablers to the things that you’re trying to achieve. Numerically Right, and it takes a lot of fortitude to fight off all the pressures that a leader has to generate the numbers short term versus generate the culture that’s going to generate the numbers long-term.
Erin Vallier:
It could be a little bit of a tough decision short-term.
Peter Svenneby:
Yeah, it’s not so much a how, it’s a choice. You’re choosing the extraordinary leaders. Make that choice and stand firm, and they’re able to persuade the powers that be over them to be patient and the results will come.
Erin Vallier:
It seems like a valuable skill set to have.
Peter Svenneby:
Yeah, they’re the ones that we learn from right.
Erin Vallier:
Yeah, they’re the ones that we follow, they’re the leaders, they’re the ones that will do whatever they ask, no matter how difficult it is.
Peter Svenneby:
I’ll circle to your question. If something happens and we need people to step up and help with this survey or whatnot, they will.
Erin Vallier:
They will because they believe that the leader is invested in their well-being and they actually matter and not just a number.
Peter Svenneby:
Yeah, there was another podcast you hosted a couple of years ago with Mike McSherry at Hierology. He was talking to you about the keys to attracting great talent when you don’t have great pay and he said make work workable, present a picture of work-life balance and share about your culture and mission something that’s meaningful to these people and give them a career path. And it’s all the same stuff.
Erin Vallier:
Given the dynamic nature of the healthcare industry, how can leaders help their teams adapt to change and stay resilient?
Peter Svenneby:
The answers are similar, like I said, to earlier podcasts, the ones with Dr Short and Laura Cabbage. At the end of the day, COVID presented this to us in a very direct way. There are things that happen beyond our control that make life tough, and I think it really comes down to acknowledgement and empathy. From the leadership perspective of this happened. I understand it’s made your life tough. I am committed to doing everything I can to make your work workable and to make your life better again. And what we’re facing here’s what we have to do.
Peter Svenneby:
When you say the dynamic nature of the healthcare industry, healthcare deals with this all the time. Covid certainly brought it to the fore so that we can see it, but there are smaller but still stress producing incidents all the time, and it’s the clear communication, the hey, we’re part of a team, the acknowledgement, the empathy and the appreciation perhaps of just acknowledging to people hey, we see that you’re working your tail off and this is a tough time and we’re going to get through this. And that applies to leadership in all industries, but probably even more so here, to your point that somebody’s got to keep the in-home providers charged up.
Erin Vallier:
There’s got to be a humanness and a sense of empathy, leadership just to keep them motivated. Life is about 10% what happens and 90% what you do with it. You’ve got to make your employees feel like you’re in it with them. That’s what I’m hearing you say.
Peter Svenneby:
Yeah, absolutely. You’re trying to come to a net positive of energy too with these folks, right? I don’t believe, as a leader, that it’s fair to. Your employee shows up, you drain every bit of energy from them and you send them back home to be crabby with their family, right, and you send them back home to be crabby with their family, right? So, taking responsibility for a balance of providing energy to them as well as expecting them to expend that energy there in the home.
Erin Vallier:
That’s a little bit of a challenge in the health care industry, but I think we’re getting better, because health care is 24-7, and you have to have that staff sometimes 24-7. So the work-life balance has always been a challenge for care workers, but I think we’ve come a long way in terms of being a little bit more empathetic and providing them more flexibilities with technologies and flexible time off and stuff like that. So we’re moving in the right direction, that’s for sure. What advice do you have for health care professionals looking to enhance their leadership skills? Are there any habits or practices they should be focusing on?
Peter Svenneby:
It comes back to what we discussed already it’s a choice and it’s a commitment, but maybe an idea that will help clarify what the choices and the commitments are. I like to think about all emotion as having two possible roots emanating out of fear and, on the other side, they’re emanating out of love, but as a synonym for love, out of purpose or what we’re trying to create or what we’re building, or something like that, and noticing throughout each day and every moment, as you’re making decisions, as you’re reacting to situations, as you’re communicating with people, who am I being and where am I coming from? Am I coming from a fear? There was another example that Mike Mishary hired from Hierology. Early in that podcast, he mentioned that so often. When we can’t build a strong culture, it’s because we hired the wrong people to begin with. And when you dissect that situation, why did we hire the wrong people? We were afraid of leaving the position open until we found the right people.
Erin Vallier:
We call it a fire hire.
Peter Svenneby:
Yes, we were more committed to the speed rather than the right fit. And so, in little decisions like that, am I choosing to do this out of fear, or am I choosing to do this out of a purpose, out of a vision, out of something we’re trying to create and really noticing how much fear is driving our behavior, how much it’s driving the communications we have, the decisions we make, afraid of failure, afraid of looking bad, afraid of not pleasing your superiors and not getting that promotion or that raise or whatever else, rather than a focus and a commitment to a purpose Building a great team, creating an energized culture, retaining a particular employee because they’re important to you, right?
Erin Vallier:
It takes a lot of courage and self-awareness. That’s what I take from it.
Peter Svenneby:
Yeah, it takes courage, self-awareness, but it’s a choice. It’s a choice. We choose leadership. You don’t have to. Those of us who are presented the choice can choose management. We have the tools of force and power and authority, but that doesn’t achieve the same results.
Erin Vallier:
No, it doesn’t. It feels much different when you have a tyrant telling you what to do.
Peter Svenneby:
Yeah.
Erin Vallier:
It does not produce pretty work, that’s for sure.
Peter Svenneby:
You can get the numbers, but only for a while and there’s fallout. Right, You’re going to have attrition. You’re going to have turnover. You’re going to have your own stress.
Erin Vallier:
Absolutely. I think leadership is the way. It’s the harder path, the road. Less traveled, it’s definitely the right path. It’s the harder path, the road less traveled.
Peter Svenneby:
It’s definitely the right path. There’s another saying I get from my buddy, john King In order to choose leadership to be extraordinary, we have to give up being special, that we’re special when we’re appointed authority. We’re special when we’re promoted. The extraordinary path is when we give up being special. We let that go and there’s a certain degree of humility in it and of self-honesty in it.
Erin Vallier:
Oh, I love that. I’m going to have to steal that from you. How does coaching and consulting impact a healthcare team’s leadership and outcomes?
Peter Svenneby:
In my practice and we’ve been doing this for a while now we began building sales operations because, at the end of the day, if you’re not selling whatever it is you provide, you die. And for me it was about helping companies thrive. And then I realized at some point that it’s not always the sales operation that’s our growth and our thriving, and I realized that leadership was a big piece of this are thriving, and I realized that leadership is a big piece of this, that we have to build a leadership mindset, we have to build a vision for where we’re going and create alignment amongst the company and everything else before all the other pieces of organizational effectiveness matter. And so the coaching and consulting impact typically starts at the very top. Impact typically starts at the very top and it starts with what do you really want to create here? And let’s get the input of all of your leaders in the organization on the same page. Let’s generate alignment. That means some of us are going to compromise and say, well, we’re aligned. We may not be in perfect agreement, but generally we’re marching in the same direction, and only at that point are you able to have a clear, unified communication. We’re marching in the same direction and only at that point are you able to have a clear, unified communication out to all of the rest of your employees, whether that’s 50 or 5,000 or 500,000,. That here’s what we’re doing, here’s how we’re going about it, here’s what matters, here’s what we’re committed to, and so that often we’ll call it a North Star. What is your North Star? Where are you going?
Peter Svenneby:
One of the primary prerequisites for leadership is that you’re taking a stand for something greater than yourself, and so typically, an organization’s North Star is something that’s aspirational. It’s not a guarantee that we’re going to get there, but the essence of what it is excites every employee, all the way down to your most junior employees that hired last week. It’s like part of the reason they joined you. And so getting that in place, establishing that, getting the team aligned and once you have that, it becomes a litmus test for decision making Does this align to where we’re going or does it not? Does this employee align to this North Star or does it not? Does this employee align to this north star or do they not? And from there you can execute. It’s really the prerequisite to great execution. So we start with where are you going? What are you trying to accomplish. Let’s get everybody aligned on the same page with that. Now let’s look at where you’re not executing in alignment with that.
Erin Vallier:
Valuable. Get that alignment and then help it drive all of your decisions and you have someone a coach, a consultant to help you architect all of that and hold you accountable until it just becomes ingrained in the culture.
Peter Svenneby:
If you’re a manager five, seven, eight layers off from the CEO, but you understand the essence of how we make decisions, you would make a decision perfectly aligned with how anybody else in the organization, all the way to the CEO, would make that decision. And that’s when you get an incredible organization.
Erin Vallier:
So, for those intrigued by your message and they’re curious about the coaching and consulting that you do, what’s the first step they can take to incorporate some of your ideas? Coaching and consulting that you do.
Peter Svenneby:
What’s the first step they can take to incorporate some of your ideas? First step’s a choice, right? What I find when we begin working with an organization is the leaders are experiencing too much anxiety, stress, etc. And leadership is not characterized by those things. You know, when a leader is behaving like a leader and doing the things that leaders should do, it should be pretty effortless, right. And when they’re experiencing stress and anxiety and ill health and all those things as a leader, there must be some conflict between how they’re behaving, what they’re committed to and how they put themselves out in the world.
Peter Svenneby:
So it’s a choice, and often at that level, it’s beneficial to have an external coach, a person that presents the mirror to you and helps you navigate some of these inner conflicts. Right, the coach’s job is not to give advice, it’s to help one navigate the conversation with their own higher self and distinguish. Yeah, this is what I know I should do and this is what I’m actually doing. It’s not telling you anything you don’t know. It’s helping you navigate that conversation with your own self. And so the choice of leadership is the first step and from there it’s just an ongoing commitment and a path of growth, and I don’t know a leader yet for whom that isn’t a journey. It’s not a quick fix. It’s just an ongoing commitment and a path of growth, and I don’t know a leader yet for whom that isn’t a journey. It’s not a quick fix. It’s a lifelong journey that’s gratifying on all levels.
Erin Vallier:
It’s a journey that can be traveled a little bit faster with the help of a coach, that’s for sure, at least in my experience. I always perform way better when I have somebody holding that mirror up.
Peter Svenneby:
There’s a certain amount of courage to step into that conversation knowing that you’re expected to be completely honest and completely transparent and really confront yourself. There’s a courageous jump that occurs to begin with that boy, at least for me. Once you make the jump, it’s a journey you’re going to continue on with.
Erin Vallier:
So any final thoughts or resources you want to recommend to the audience.
Peter Svenneby:
Boy. There are tremendous books. There are tremendous videos on YouTube. At the end of the day, if you’re really passionate and motivated, reach out to me. I’ve got a unique last name. It’s easy to find me. There are not 10 of us in the US and I’m happy to share with you a book list or coaches that I’ve engaged with, programs I’ve done, et cetera, et cetera. I think my journey on my own has really been one of personal growth and trying to tap into everything I can find to continue on this journey. So happy to share that with anyone.
Erin Vallier:
Fantastic, and I know you were very gracious to extend a special offer to the listeners today, so would you please tell them what the offer is and how they can take advantage of it.
Peter Svenneby:
Yeah, if this conversation resonates, reach out to me, let’s have a conversation. For me, this is where I get my energy, is helping other leaders as they’re making this journey and transforming their organization and really trying to sort out where should I focus and how do I accomplish what I envision. So, yeah, reach out to me, let’s have a conversation.
Erin Vallier:
And how can they best reach out to you.
Peter Svenneby:
Boy. Linkedin is easy. Peter , the spelling should be in the podcast Reach out on LinkedIn, or you can certainly find me online on our website and reach out there.
Erin Vallier:
Thank you so much for coming on the show. It’s been a wonderful conversation.
Peter Svenneby:
Grateful for the opportunity. Thank you so much.
Jeff Howell:
Home Health 360 is presented by Alaya Care and hosted by Jeff Howell and Erin Vallier. First, we want to thank our amazing guests and listeners. Second, our episodes air twice a month, so be sure to subscribe today so you don’t miss an episode.
Erin Vallier:
And last but not least, if you liked this episode and want to learn more about all things home-based care, you can explore all of our episodes at alayacare. com/homehealth360 or visit us on your favorite podcast platform.
Listen to episodes on your favourite platform:
Episode Description
Join Executive Health Care Coach Peter Svenneby and host Erin Vallier as they explore the complex balance between managing and leading in health care. This episode offers valuable insights on creating a culture of well-being for employees and patients. They discuss the traits that make up exceptional leaders in the health care industry and provide strategies for cultivating empathy, improving communication, and maintaining work-life balance. Leaders in health care, and by extension, home-based care, will walk away with a renewed sense of purpose and a better understanding of how their actions can shape the cultural landscape of patient care.
